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17-08-2012 Fiction is not my cup of tea, either, because it's mostly written by members of that "bunch of harmful idiots" whose interests differ so significantly from mine.I did read fiction extensively, though, in my time. After years and years of not paying any attention to it, I read this one because it was a present. And... miracle! It turned out that, at the core of the story, there was an unmistakable antinatalist message! Would you believe it? In a book sort of intended for adolescents? The author happens to be married and with children, so either : - they are adopted - (or) she realized too late - (or) she inadvertently produced this story without being aware of the bomb she was placing right on the hands of those tender teenagers. Do you think she could ever read this humble review? I hope not... Anyway, I really, really loved her flexible and original style and the marvellous pace and rhythm, and... well, everything (this is for you, dear author, in case you happen to read this, and true to the Almighty that I'm being honest). The connection with the topic of "labour" is:... I don't know, there must be something... What about this:... "the best jobs are the ones in which you can elaborate on your dreams... instead of crashing them to the ground... conclusion: I wouldn't mind being a writer" Well, it was a try... I don't like diverting from the topic... sorry. |
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17-08-2012 Btw, can't see the connection between survivor spirit and breeder spirit, but surely there must be one if you say so... I trust your judgement. |
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17-08-2012
I read the 'survivor spirit' as smth like stoicism, like 'to pull thru no matter which horrors happen to you on the way'. Stoically taking all the torments and not letting anything get you down - thats a frequently given advise from pronatalists. They say 'because I can survive all the horrors in my life and still enjoy it, so should my children'. Thats where I see a connection. You may have meant smth different by 'survivor spirit'. |
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18-08-2012 Ah yes, the "tough-parents with tough-kids" kind of survivors... I thought you could refer to that.No, I'm the "I-will-try-to-survive-against-my-will" kind of survivor. And, if some degree of stoicism is needed, well, I can be as good at it as any pronatalist... In fact, I seriously doubt the toughness of those other survivors. They seem so scared of the unknown (in all aspects of life)... and so dependent on the protection of a God/religion/status/family... Lots of muscles and bravados, but weak at the core, I think. |
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10-10-2012 I agree with most of it except the part where you say that realizing your mortality at a young age allows one to break free from the constraints...Not really. Realizing my own mortality allowed me to comprehend how utterly absurd life is and that this whole replicating molecule game consisting of nothing but psychological need/desire is just that - a stupid game as Gary would say. That's all it did. It reinforced the complete and utter lunacy of existence and the pristine "perfection" of non-existence. Its not "breaking free from constraints" - its realizing how utterly and helplessly constrained you truly are. |
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10-10-2012
...you say that realizing your mortality at a young age allows one to break free from the constraints... Not really. Realizing my own mortality allowed me to comprehend how utterly absurd life is ... For me it did both. If I'm mortal and I know the clock is ticking then I won't be wasting even a little time on things I don't enjoy. I'll try ro find a fulfilling job without procrastinating, I'll quit unfulfilling relationships, I'll not do many of the things people do to make others happy, to play some role, to seem something they're not, because I realize those peoples' opinions won't matter when I'll be leaving this world, what will matter is whether I did my best to be as happy as possible, or, at the very least, to avoid as much shit as possible and to be as true to myself as possible. That's not to say that death, doesn't, in its turn, render all our struggle meaningless. It does. Unfortunately, this world is so broken good things often come at a price. Death is one of those things, too. It can make you realize how silly your earthly mundane worries and fears are. But you'll also learn that life itself is futile. Though some people then choose to proclaim their life has meaning because they said so. For them it does. Seems a bit like a coping mechanism. Oh well...
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10-10-2012 Now in terms of labor: none of it matters. The entire structure is based around the want/need machine and so this useless "rearranging of matter" (even though we don't really do anything truth be told) is just that - useless. Work serves no purposes whatsoever except to satisfy a need that should have never existed in the first place.The only solution is a universal termination of all consciousness, all sentience to end this nightmare once and for all. |
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10-10-2012
Dima, I know where you're coming from. None of anything matters in the global perspective. But this post was written from an 'earthly' perspective. I mean, we're still going to continue to exist here for some period of time, unfortunately, perhaps, for a considerably long period of time. So while we're here people will still be thinking of how to live our daily lives and this is what this post is about: should people buy into the idea that labour is noble as such. |
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11-10-2012 Oh Irina Irina I do know where you're coming form, but I take these insights at such a deep level that I can no longer function in daily life at all.. its not merely a philosophical realization for me... its a life sentence... Once you adopt antinatalist views and have as pessimistic outlook as I do, nothing matters not merely as insight but in terms of actions or decisions. Its the most paralyzing thing in the world. I was always this pessimistic, but I once had your disposition in terms of living the life... now, I no longer want to live it but there is no easy way out of this shithole. I found over the years such a huge aversion to optimism that I simply cannot withstand even the smallest amount of it:) |
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11-10-2012 I hate this antinatalist attitude of "we've got the final solution, there's no need to talk about anything else." We all still suffer in the meantime, you selfish prick. |
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11-10-2012 Basically, for me the ticking clock merely requires an acceleration so it will tick itself out already and I won't have to be conscious anymore of anything at all, the futility or the triviality of everything.It doesn't matter if I enjoy things, doesn't matter if a job is fulfilling (impossible to do in a capitalistic society or existentially speaking), relationships don't matter at all and there really is no such thing as not wasting time because all time spent being conscious is essentially wasting time in this zero-sum game of need/desire carnage. I reached a state where I no longer seek sadness or happiness... I just thing its all a pure waste. Sorry, I am a pessimist to this extent through and through... |
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11-10-2012
Dima, this is the case for you. But it isn't for everybody. People deal with stuff differently. Some are completely crushed and unmotivated to move forward, others try to distract themsleves as much as possible while it is still possible. You can't say to other people: be like me. Unless you're willing to be told the same by them. Let's just accept that we're different due to our life experience, and we react in different ways. I'm not allowing myself to break under the weight of the depressing truth and so far I'm succeeding in that. It allows me to function and write this blog. I don't think me staying in bed all day instead of being active will do anyone any good, including me. But this is a topic of living after disillusionment with life |
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11-10-2012 Francois, not sure what you meant but the only way to stop suffering is to kill yourself. That assures that your suffering ends and no more suffering will come to any of your potential future kids. |
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11-10-2012 Yea, thanks for putting the burden on the victim, you insensitive prick. I didn't ask to be born, why should I have to go through the burden of killing myself because of that "gift" I never asked for? How about I'd rather stay alive and try to help other people instead? |
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11-10-2012
Francois, please try to be a bit less aggressive (with name-calling and all). Otherwise I value your comments on my blog.)) |
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11-10-2012 Francois I feel the same as you as a fellow anti-natalist. I never asked for this shit which is why I will never pass it along and why I think the way I think about how everything is wasteful and futile.However, even though I never asked for it, the option of suicide is there and its the only rational solution the problem of life. Helping others? I don't desire something like that especially since this consciousness was thrust upon me BY those OTHERS and is REINFORCED BY those OTHERS. All i desire is for my consciousness as well as all other sentience in the universe to simply vanish and this absurd nightmare will come to an end. |
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11-10-2012 Well, it's not my fault he's being insensitive. I think telling people that the only way to alleviate their suffering is to kill themselves is pretty offensive, especially when there are things we can do here and now to alleviate it. As long as we refuse to look at how the power elite is fucking life on this planet, fucking people's safety nets all over the world, and indoctrinating us to, amongst other things, breed, we're just playing their game. And people like Dima are responsible for perpetuating these games that don't need to exist.Antinatalism is a starting point, but you can't refuse to look at the same hierarchies that have pushed natalism for millenia, and which now also impose global suffering and disaster on everyone. |
Comments to Labor, consumerism, wage slavery etc