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I was walking outside today and saw this old lady sitting on a bench by the house. Usually there'd be 2 or 3 'grandmas' sitting there chatting (gossipping, perhaps, but who cares?), but this time she was alone. Just sitting there, looking at the world, doing nothing, just existing... Her whole posture was like "ok so I am here, I have to be here for some reason, so I am. Not thrilled about it, it's just my mission: I'll sit here and just exist until I drop dead"
No interest or meaybe no health or motivation to read a book or something. I was wondering if she was in some deep thoughts or on the contrary, so primitive or just so numb that she didn't have anything going on in her mind. Her wrinkled old face didn't show much emotion. Oh well, I'll never know. I just hope I'll never live to be her age.
Hey, maybe it's her on this old picture?
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Brian W.
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15-07-2016
I'm around people 80 years old and up every day. Trust me, we don't want to get old
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Irina |
17-07-2016
I see, thanks for confirming my suspicion. So, since we're in a close age group, we should get together for a suicide get-togethe one day before we're way too old :D if we're still alive |
Brian W.
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15-07-2016
By the way, I've been using all the terrorist attacks and problems to promote antinatalism. I find about 10% of people agree with me
Do you ever promote it? |
Irina |
17-07-2016
And the 90 percent think you're a weirdo, right? I've tried in real life, it is a waste of time and a good alienation strategy. At best, people will disagree and still think you're a good erson even though you have strange views, at worst they'll think there's gotta be something wrong with you. |
Brian W.
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17-07-2016
Irina,
America is a mess. Ukraine is a mess. How can one stay positive? Just become selfish? It's tough for me. |
Irina |
17-07-2016
But yeah, you have to find what makes you happy, or just what is fun and try to pursue it. I find that living alone, cutting off people who make me miserable or try to use me is a huge step in that direction. But of course, if shit hits the fan in Ukraine tomorrow it won't be so fun no more. But what can I do about it? Nothing. Sp today I watch a good movie, chat with friends, have a glass of wine, read a book and fuck tomorrow's mayhem if it comes. |
Brian W.
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17-07-2016
Great points all around, Irina. This is why you're the master
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Irina |
19-07-2016
Haha thanks, here's the longer version http://uriupina.com/philosophy-psychology/pessimism-depression-meaning |
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24-07-2016
Well, when you're old all of sudden a lot of things stop making sense. Why have goals? Why make long-term plans?
That carrot that we're all chasing starts to disappear after a certain age. It's easy to delude ourselves with promises of a better life, a better job, better experiences and so forth when we are younger... |
Irina |
24-07-2016
Right, and then we're often seeing an increase in religiosity (or para-religiosity, all those life after death 'spiritual' beliefs), at least that's what I seem to observe, not gonna claim there's a study that confirmes this. But it's clear at that point that our earthly lives are final, and our pleasures are limited and body can be such a source of pain as well... so... hope for a sky daddy? a renewed incarnation somewhere else after this old painful sack disintegrates? this is scary, i don't blame old people for trying to delude themselves even harder, we're just scared animals after all. A bit more annoying and duplicitous and a lot less cute then some other animals I might add. |
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25-07-2016
Have you notice an increase in religiosity in people as they get older? That's interesting.
Can't say I have seen that. I think people who turn to god or to the possibility of an after-life when they're old or in suffering tend to be people who have always been either agnostic, religious or extremely suggestible. Even if I was in excruciating pain I don't see how that could ever override a life of skepticism and scientific naturalism. In fact to be honest, I don't even think god existing would be as good as most people think. That's the thing, life without god is terrible and life with god would also be terrible. I find this duality to be true in regard to most things. Life without meaning is terrible but life with an objective meaning would also be pretty bad since like you said, we would be slaves to it. Life without the notion of free will is very disheartening and yet life with true free will would be impossible. For some reason this reminds me of a quote by Pessoa: "Rather than the cessation of my existence, which may or may not be possible, this weariness makes me long for something far more horrifying and profound: never to have existed at all, which is definitely impossible. " Anyway, I'm rambling. |
Irina |
25-07-2016
Yeah, no, most of them I think were not atheists all their lives, but not church-going or regularly praying either, they were just 'there's probably some higher power out there, but why should I care, I got interesting shit to do while I'm young', and then growing old and moving closer to greave they start going to church or reading/talking a lot about the other world and how what they do here will count in there. I've even been told by someone I knew that hs father, though he was a true atheist all his life, asked for a priest on his death bed. And then, just look at what Tolstoy wrote in his 'Confession', even after he'd seen all the absurdity and suffering of this world, he still turned to religon in the end. Ah! Another exampe is that movie 'God on Trial' and what they do in the end, in that gas chamber after they've sentenced their God. It depicts human irrationality and the horror that our mortality raises in us. Even if I was in excruciating pain I don't see how that could ever override a life of skepticism and scientific naturalism. That's how I feel as well, in my worst moments I still can't make myself believe in God and pray. And just the same I start thinking, what good would it do to pray to a God who would create/allow such a world to exist/continue, if he/she/it had the values we humans have he/she/it would've already done something to mitigate the suffering on this planet without our tips and pleads. As Sophocle wrote, never to have come into existence is by far the best thing. Well, tough for us))) |
Steven
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24-08-2016
There are no non-believers on a crashing plane? Isn't this just a case of people hedging their bets? "OK, there's PROBABLY no god, but just to be on the safe a last minute conversion is in order!" The idea that there must be some intrinsic meaning to life is bound up with the notion that our actions, "achievements" and lives themselves will somehow "live on" after our bodies have been returned to a pile of atoms and that we will be remember by those in the future. We must "make our marks", "leave a legacy" and so on. How many motivational books and so-called gurus urge us to ask ourselves "what will your legacy be?” Of course, the Stoics would scoff at this, preferring to ask “Who will even know your name?”; it seems that this is a depressing idea for some. It’s this idea, that nothing has any real meaning, that can lead someone to question the validity of doing anything, of pursuing any hobby so that end like the main character in Philip Roth’s book, “Everyman”, when he looks at his accumulated books and hobby-related materials and realises with horror that the very things he sought to have at the end of his life are in fact futile and, in a cruel twist of fate, unwanted by him. He’s been fooling himself all along. In my own life I’ve lost all interest in reading novels after asking myself why the hell I was willing to spend all that time wading through yet another fat tome: really, what is the point? What was I trying to prove? And to whom?
Perhaps it enough to enjoy something, to know that you enjoy it and not kill it to death by asking it to give us or our little lives meaning. |
Nikola
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02-10-2016
Your comment about getting together for suicide reminded me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXxzEZJDXSM, and the scene at 24:10, if you did that i would probably die from heart attack
..but in all seriousness i feel so calm just thinking about suicide with someone who shares my world view, not that i would not do it ''alone'' but just the thought of group of people with similar world view getting together and ''showing middle finger'' to life makes me happy. |
Irina |
02-10-2016
Hey good short film. H eart attack isn't the worst thing to die of ))) Well, sure, 'group of people with similar world view' is nice, but there's sometimes that dynamics that's unseen over the internet, so when you actually do meet someone you had great contact with on the net you might actually dislike them, or something about them, almost on a vicveral level. How awkward would that be: "hey wait I've changed my mind, I don't want to die with you"))) Or put it more rudely and you have a chance of getting killed)) Was there once a website at suicideholiday? It's in the name of the film and of course there's nothing by that url. Such unquestionable prohibition against suicide. As if people get 'seduced' into offing themselves easily. |
Nikola
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03-10-2016
Yes i understand the possibility of that happening, but i personally wouldn't worry about it, what are the odds of someone getting that mad? but yea it would be weird and in my opinion hilarious if after already arranged get together suicide, on the same exact day i told someone in person or i was told ''I don't want to die with you'' LOL If it happens that we meet and i find you weird i would just send you an email later that day saying: Irina, i've changed my mind, i don't want to die
About the website, i found an archive few years ago, and the website itself lasted from 1993 to 2002, there was some ridiculous media backlash against it in the past. Visitng that website few years ago was fascinating, emotional, and at times felth like staring at the void. The whole idea of a website and people giving you tips on how to commit suicide, people getting together for a suicide, was for sure a unique thing in the 90's. I like that people got opportunity to express themselves, and i am sure that many did not commit suicide, ironically because they found the website, and people they could relate to. It was truly a rebellious part of the internet, just like your website is today, in it's own way. btw something random, i recently found this song on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIFlhzdILMc the video/song blew me away, so many emotions.. |
Irina |
05-10-2016
i would just send you an email later that day saying: Irina, i've changed my mind, i don't want to die ;) Liar, even on his 'death bed'! lol Kidding, it's always good to try and avoid hurting anybody's feelings. i am sure that many did not commit suicide, ironically because they found the website, and people they could relate to. I'd also think that. just like your website is today, in it's own way. aww, thanks! :) i recently found this song on youtube it's very hypnotic, the vid+melody just match perfectly. Were you searching for suicide music, as in 'music to die to'? hehehe because this one would fit))) |