quote
follow
|
29-04-2018 Nice article Irina, brings a great perspective to the issue of antinatalism.--- > Edited 29-04-2018 23:16:29 |
|
29-04-2018 Targets for harm is an interesting choice of words and a phrase I might have thought of myself because it so accurately describes the feeling I get when faced with the prospect of procreation. I have never been impressed enough with this plane of existence to inflict it upon someone else, who may or may not appreciate it and all of its "wonders". Irina, I do not know if you are a "Marilyn Manson" fan or not, but in probably his darkest song, "Minute of Decay", he recites the lyrics, "The minute that it is born, it begins to die, I would love to just give in, I would love to live this lie." The verse always resonated with me and certainly has antinatalist overtones. It is true that our sex drive often irresponsibly leads us to create lives without any serious consideration of the ramifications. Sadly, the results are often disastrous as life is difficult at best. I cringe when I think of the horrors that eventually await newborns and the young, all the while everyone else celebrates their arrival as a "gift". Speaking from experience I know life can feel more often like a curse. Anyway, thanks for providing such a rare forum for this line of thinking to be expressed freely. " Minute of Decay" sounds an awful lot like a strong candidate for the quintessential " Antinatalist Theme Song" of the year award. Perhaps we could create an awards show for such an event!--- > Edited 29-04-2018 23:34:58 |
[ link ] |
18-05-2018
"sex drive often irresponsibly leads us to create lives without any serious consideration of the ramifications" Yep, that seems to be the case at the very basic level, and plus some optimistic biases come into play, the allure of youth, the time of relative good health, lots of energy, more money and possibilities, more freedom to do what one wishes, coming across that 'special one' and all those come into fusion and having kids seems so natural and a way to go that most people don't give it much thought or actively push away negative objections, worries... I too look at the kids, little bundles of joy and wonder, running around looking happy, thinking what disappointments await them in the future, after they've realised they're just aging until they die, that they have to work most their lives to provide food, shelter and medical care for themselves, that most their dreams will not come true and like their parents they'll end up living from payday to payday saving up for that new phone or maybe a vacation somewhere in a 3-star hotel once a year, if they're lucky. Because that's what their parents are. And they have been kids, too. Speaking of 'theme songs', that reminds me there was this once https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0of_nTU6vdI |
|
23-05-2018 Hey, Rina. I did not realize there was already an antinatalist theme song, but that was a pretty catchy tune! Please excuse my ignorance, but in what language is the vocalist singing or better yet, what nationality is the band? I am a simple boy from North Carolina and not terribly worldly, so forgive me. Thanks for the response and the link, it is much appreciated. Have a good day. |
[ link ] |
23-05-2018
That's in Polish, so I assume same the nationality of the performers. Us Ukrainians can relatively easily recognize and understand that language of our neighbors. Not a bad tune and video editing there. You have a nice day, too, not worldly boy))) |
|
29-05-2018 Thanks Rina, I am working on becoming more worldly and your influence is surely having a great effect pushing me in that direction. |
|
29-05-2018 Hey, Rina. I know this may be slightly off topic, but I just happened across a video from Youtuber "Stell Bell" entitled "8 Reasons not to have Children - Debunked and thought it served as an interesting retort to the "Parents Create Targets for Harm" article, even though it was obviously not intended as such. Sorry I did not include a link (I am not very worldly as you know, or particularly tech savvy either), but you should really check it out, as I would LOVE to hear your take on what she has to say in defense of natalism. Apparently, the video was made in response to an article from a NY based newspaper to refute the claims made by the author therein. Most intriguing stuff to a man of my limited intellectual capacity. Oh, I nearly forgot (where are my manners), Happy Memorial Day from the Tarheel state! It is raining cats and dogs here due to a tropical system in the gulf. I had to nearly grill underwater this afternoon, but managed to avoid drowning. Hope things are a bit calmer and drier in your neck of the woods. |
|
22-10-2018 Hopefully Irina and readers access older threads... RE: "So, free will doesn't actually exist. Sorry (and sorry to Kirk too if he's reading this. See? I told you 35 years ago that I'd one day get around to addressing the issue! wink.png Lol) about that." *AND* Sex Robots... I've studied this for 2/3 of my life, and during that time science and philosophy have both moved forward a notch, in some ways. I've thought and looked and considered and questioned and experienced people and activities and self as much as reasonable and my conclusion is that, just like we didn't quit discovering when we had Newton's laws down but discovered that they only work for the large and slow and it took an Einstein to take the nest step, the same might be very possibly true with the Free Will vs. Determinism (or whatever you want to call it). I have found attempts to explain self-generated volition (I'll use sloppy wording here because of the late hour and lack of necessity), volition as an axiomatic property, building software to have free will, etc., etc. but never really found a succinct article that seems to explain my point of view to a fair degree, until now. It isn't brilliant, or fantastic, but makes a case the way I would, and instead of re-writing it as an echo of what seems fair to me, I'll reference it here (hopefully a link can work with cut and paste or whatever). https://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-04-27/ And then there is the Sex Robot thing. Since Texas is my 5th generation home, I'll report that Houston is supposedly the first city to possibly have a Sex Robot store, maybe in the world. The robots are about as advanced as the TRS-80 Radio Shack computer is to an Apple iPhone, but the product is out there. Houston is just now trying to figure out what to do about it, especially since they harbor an idea that uglifies the entire city landscape, being "Highest and Best use" for private property. That is, you have the right to do whatever you want with your property, the invisible hand of commerce will result in the best use of it. That's BS, of course, but it is interesting that when something rears its head like a Sex Robot Companion, highest and best use seems to problematic for leaders of the city. Principally, and more honestly, they don't want to destroy the current brothel and strip club revenue and associated taxes that they currently benefit from, though they won't say that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBFfkcZLfWg |
|
19-02-2019 I remember when I was twenty, wrote a lengthy letter to my mother (since I don't have even a father), how f.. life I had to endure and her part in it. She escaped by saying - a lot of these things are just how the world around is... First, it was wrong, since she had personal issues - like... not providing a father for me, punishing me with silence as a child (which even to me at that age, was clearly wrong), leaving me alone a lot of times (since she had to deal with her own psychological breakdowns and odd character), not be able to understand me and accept me for who I am (I was always perceived mainly as *her child*). Second, she is the person that must decide if it's a good idea to become a parent in the first place. She had few spontaneous abortions, which shows her bad emotional condition even from the beginning. A marriage that never worked (my father was not even in the hospital with her). Even to this day, with this world becoming even more f.. place, she doesn't really get why I refuse children. And she is actually clever for a woman, but in some people, some brain connections just don't develop it seems. The desire for sex, the desire to be "normal", that need life to have some inherent positive meaning, is just too strong.My vision about most antinatalists is that they are too focused on suffering. Well, this is a subjective thing. Suffering is bigger, when your consciousness is bigger. Stupid and superficial people are doing just fine, since for them things like eating, drinking, breeding, spending money compensates everything. I have something objective - if you make a child without love - towards the life you have, towards your partner, towards being a parent, this says it all. Yes, life has no meaning, it lacks justice, but if you are still able to say - I somehow found love here, and to be fulfilled as a sensual being, I will accept it. However people are not capable even to truly love, since in its core - it's just a desire for something. I can't say if they are completely incapable of higher order feelings (in the same way we are capable of higher order reason), or love requires some sort of so big effort, that most are just incapable. But the end result is - homo sapiens don't even love. I.e. it's a creature that has neither logical, nor sensible reason to exist. |
[ link ] |
19-02-2019
Thank you for your comment, interim! It was interesting to read. Sorry for the short response, but I've been very busy, so thought I'd better at least let you know I've read it and that what you wrote resonates with my own thoughts a lot. |
|
17-08-2019 Irina,Thank for your post stolen from reddit. I congratulate you for that. Most interesting. I donВґt think parents can be blamed for reproducing because after all human beings are programmed to procreate. Only a minority can reason that bringing a child into this slaughterhouse is madness. But only a minority. The way I see it this planet is a combination of slave farm, prison and laboratory. I think we are part of an experiment. I just wonder if Earth is the only planet being experimented. Many years ago, the Paraguayan newspapers reported that Dr.Josef Mengele aka The Angel of Death was given Paraguayan citizenship in 1959. Supposedly he stayed some years here and then fled to Brazil where he again, supposedly, died in 1979 by drowning. Dr. Mengele was wanted because of his wartime medical experiments on twins, children, and dwarfs. He believed these experiments in Auschwitz to be groundbreaking. I read that in 1943, he ordered hundreds of children under the age of five thrown alive into a fire pit to burn to death. Those who attempted to climb out were hurled back into the flames by the guards. When he gave those orders, he thought that the gas chambers were an ineffective means of murdering such young children. So, Irina, this world is a living cemetery. It is not a pleasant thing to say or write. What happened to those children in the extermination camps was horrible. But it was and it is just a drop in an ocean of blood. Every single second on this Earth violence is perpetrated. Stay well and greetings from Paraguay. |
[ link ] |
18-08-2019
Hi Raul, Glad to see you checking out my blog again. Hey, I'm also glad to have stolen some gems from Reddit, this one, for example, is already gone from there https://uriupina.com/misc-mix/introductory-guide-to-life I agree with everything you wrote. Also not blaming people, but do find it helpful to rant and vent about the stupidity now and again. But am under no illusions, any more perhaps, to change the status-quo of people keeping breeding and on average simpler folks breeding more. I've had a chance to watch some animals in their natural habitats day in and day out for a while, and I tell you there's much similarity between those mammals and some humans in how primitive their lives are. There's many people living primarily on their instincts, just like other, non-human animals. There's really nothing you can tell them to make them see what we see. If life is a struggle for them - they accept it and struggle, and run like squirrel in a wheel, for years, like automatons, and procreate. They will believe it's all God's will and heaven's rewards awaite them. If they're doing well, they say 'hey, nothing to complain about! Life is great!' and procreate, why not. What more people can be seduced with is childfree rout, because our thinking capacity works best when it concerns our direct self-interest. Is life without little brats in fact better for many people? I believe so. But people who need children the most are oftentimes those who shouldn't have them. They have a void in their lives, no idea what to do with themselves apart from playing a role of the parent, dream of someone dependednt on them, who can't survive without them, essentially, they want a 'trapped' person to love and who will have virtually no choice but to love them back. A partner, a friend can fall out of love with you but a child - well, usually not, and at least until they grow some brains they're completely under your control. I've read so many women on forums writing they desperately want a child because their lives are so hard and meaningless otherwise. You want to say, go to shrink first, treat your traumas, if you can't find hapiness in this world by yourself, why do you want to bring a child to share your misery? How can you teach them to be happy if your life is a mess? Of course, people are like junkies when they crave something... And on one hand I feel sorry for those women too, they also didn't ask to be born and they're just acting according to their 'programming', that is, their past traumas, their mental capacities. I don't vilify them, but the whole setting, the whole 'design' of the world - yes, I fault it and complain about it. That the life and death decisions are at the hands of the stupid. That even a 12 year old can get pregnant. That's dumb. It is both sad and ridiculous. As the famous quote goes, “Life is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel.” |
Comments to Parents create targets for harm