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21-06-2014 Hi Irina, you old wrinkled lady It would be difficult to accuse you of not being realistic. You breathe realism. Yes, the world isn't fair. Many people are losers and misfits. We carry a few pounds of bacteria around in these bodies (which is one of the reasons why the stages of decomposition of a human corpse - beginning with autolysis - aren't really looking great). We produce lots of shit during our lifetime. And so on. The reality is no doubt one of the reasons for some of us to be attracted by religious forms of hope. For others, it is a reason to hold on to atheism (rejection of what looks like false hope - because false hope is painful hope). It can be a reason for plenty of other reactions - for instance suicide. Less drastic: issuing a declaration how we want to end our life in case we get very sick (euthanasia), or having certain ideas about how to live - like antinatalism. Or, as some people don't like sex (ref. http://youtu.be/yrXWqwuOqIQ - I saw this video lately), who knows, it might occasionally be a psychical reaction of people who happen to look more intense-realistic at the 'physics' of life. It could also lead to more negative reactions, e.g. extreme fear and greed (grabbing as much fun as they can for themselves because they cannot cope with less) - in extremis, maybe with a desire to do anything to get "younger" again, even at the expense of others (as we're told in some horror movies). Or it may lead to extreme indifference. We could even assume that psychopaths are better equipped to deal with reality, as they could rely on more effective coping mechanisms (ref. Buffalo Bill). But indifference must not be confused with a sense of "Nirvana" in which a person accepts the reality with a sense of "letting go", which may lead to happiness. So here we see how close the extremes can be. Also, seeing the reality can lead to such opposite reactions as greed vs. (extreme) altruism - something which is probably close to religious hope. Ain Rand, of course, was against altruism. - We can debate these "opposite views" forever, perhaps until we realize that we can never escape from the paradoxes of life. Given the variety of different reactions, it seems that even while reality is just what it is (the way you described it here - and I tend to agree with that), the ways we look at it are vastly different. There is the enthusiasm for life but also the restraint. Or, to put it in terms of Victor Hugo, il y a "le sublime et le grotesque". And somehow, there must be a trick, to reconcile both. As Victor Hugo did, in a way - as Quasimodo (the grotesque) seems to produce the sublime. Let me say one more thing here: this picture has Lady Gaga un-photoshopped (on the left) and photoshopped (on the right) http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/yzjxu2o0jutjmx4ojkbg.jpg (original article: http://jezebel.com/what-lady-gagas-versace-ads-look-like-without-photoshop-1563552623) To me it seems obvious that what Versace made of her (right) is hardly Lady Gaga, and not beautiful at all. But the picture on the left shows a truly beautiful woman, even (or especially) while we can see "imperfections". (Okay she has hair extensions and all that - but you know what I mean). In a certain way, the reality has something that cosmetic (or shall we say cosmic) perfection cannot give. And maybe, just maybe, that remains true even if we start to not see much beauty anymore. I'm pretty sure older people can see beauty in older people more easily than young people do. You wrote, I suppose, from a rather "young" perspective. Maybe it is not as bad as all that - but we look at things from where we stand today. And it seems that over time, our views adapt a little. |
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29-06-2014
Hi Irina, you old wrinkled lady ;) Well, I'm getting there all right))) a truly beautiful woman, even (or especially) while we can see "imperfections". Sure, little imperfections here and there don't mean we stop seeing the person as attractive in whole. There's even more charm in letting some imperfections be seen as more people will be able to relate. But then there are things that are way too ugly and no matter how you look at them you want to mask them. Like stretch marks, or spotty skin. Try and see those in a 'right light'. I think the kinds of imperfections that are associated somewhere in our brain with disease are never perceived as 'simply little imperfections'. They have been programmed by evolution to disgust us. Perhaps beacause people who found spotty skin fine died of infectious diseases more often by coming in contact with sick individuals. I'm pretty sure older people can see beauty in older people more easily than young people do Well I hope that's true, for older peoples sake :) You wrote, I suppose, from a rather "young" perspective. Yeah but from whatever perspective a younger body looks better than the 'well-travelled' one. If you gave a bunch of healthy old people a chance to look young again - with no catch or negative consequences, - just all other things being equal, would they prefer to wear "old man's skin suit" or a "young man's" I think we'd find many takers. But none the other way around: would you take a chance to look older today? Woud that be just as beautiful? No way. |
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23-06-2014 Irina - I didn't ask for your home address - look it up on facebook if you like. But...I don't want to get into a who-said-what-type-of-discussion. If I wanted to waste my time fighting about such stuff, I would get a girlfriend. Anyhow don't worry - we're all cool. Maybe there was a misunderstanding or something came over differently than it was meant to be. I came here for the antinatalism and I hope there's more material coming up in the future. There's still a lot to explore. Greetz |
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26-06-2014 Regarding photo of abdomen and beauty...Beauty entails wholeness, so beauty isn't relevant to partial image of the body. E.g. a beautiful piece of music is only ever determined to be, one way or the other, after it has "finished", or, to put another way, gone at least one full revolution in whatever it is to convey. Otherwise it is nothing, chaos until it is "complete", where beauty is indicative of higher state(s) of order, forming a whole thing. This is why we will judge a whole face, or a whole body, or both together, but not a mere part of them that is dependent upon, or (visibly) connected to, a whole bunch of other parts (the form of the facial features is determined by the same information used to determine that of the body, therefore an encapsulation of it, therefore "complete"; if you (virtually, of course) "flip" and expand the head horizontally, drop it down to genital region and align certain parts (details aside) with those in this region, you will find that, from person to person, the particular physical characteristics of the one area are expressed in the characteristics of the other, and are the same between persons with similar faces, or working from other direction to determine the face, those characteristics concentrated in the lower region). Put another, more popular way, beauty is (always) an embodiment of (a) truth(s). |
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28-06-2014 As an antinatalist, I wince at the thought that this campaign is, almost without a doubt, aimed at encouraging childbirth.However, regarding universal beauty, I beg to differ, to an extent. Especially the way bernardo put it ("men will always prefer this, a woman will always prefer that"). To say that we don't have a choice in our preferences, that it is all evolutionally determined, is kind of funny considering that evolution "allows" antinatalists to exist, for one Anyway, I think that beauty is largely subjective, in the eyes of the beholder as the saying goes. It's definitely not a "thin women, muscular men only club", as there are women who prefer lanky geeky guys and men who prefer fat ladies. (Should I mention men attracted to men, and women attracted to women of one body type or another, while we're at it?) However, I suppose there may be something not "universally beautiful" but "universally repulsive", such as when we see something that strikes us as a sign of disease and suffering. It evokes strong feelings (pity or simply fear) that tend to override all but the most bizarre, and arguably perverted, preferences. Similarly, some people like sweets and others like spicy food, and there are places in Africa where people consider insects a delicacy. Yet probably there should be a limit to what kinds of stuff we are prepared to see a person put in their mouth without thinking that there's something wrong with them. Or, maybe, some people like cozy armchairs and some people like sports (and some like both); if we look at the BDSM subculture, some people even appear to like mild pain. But perhaps nobody can enjoy serious suffering. (As a pessimist, I tend to think that strong negative stimuli always take precedence -- overwhelm -- and this is a fundamental asymmetry between pleasure and suffering; if I recall correctly, Schopenhauer wrote something about this.) In short, IMO tastes and preferences can be chosen over a broad range, but bot a limitless one. That's how I see it. |
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30-06-2014 this is good that is badthis is pleaseing that is disgusting this is truth that is untruth will and rep affirm negate this that action, what is the source of this? psy, prehaps would you affirm this instead of that would you negate that instead of this hav you direct experience of such a thing? seeing it as thought you misunderstand seeing it as that.. anger, sadness laughter, which do you affirm? if you say yes or no you have missed the point |
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01-07-2014 Love this fantastic blog. I am a mutilated woman progressively disfigured by genetic disease. My incurable deformities have grown so severe that, from the age of about ten, I have hardly left my house without being the object of public ridicule, hatred and scorn. Who can count the number of times I have publicly been called "hideous"? And yet it is out of the mouths of these same demons who scoff at me, that also loudly and arrogantly and heartlessly profess "Everyone is beautiful/ beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and publicly deny what they privately indulge in- the ridicule and seething hatred of those who are not pretty enough for their standards. As a person who can barely leave their house because of a hideously abnormal appearance, I can testify to the obvious, that not everyone is beautiful. That many are grotesquely ugly and deformed. And that those who deny this fact are throwing salt on the wounds of those of us who have cried ourselves to sleep many a night over our unacceptable appearance. You bullshitters are denying the anguish that is felt by the un-beautiful. You "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" bullshitters- trade places with me for one day. See if you still feel beautiful. There is nothing loving and compassionate about spinning a web of lies. I much prefer those that can acknowledge my ugliness whilst still accepting me as a person, rather than those wolves that lie through their teeth and refuse to face reality in the interest of trying to make themselves feel saintly. You people who deny that their is actual beauty and actual ugliness in this world are the real wolves and vipers. Also I would like to add that in general the beautiful people have treated me inhumanely, and that most of those who are lovely doves on the outside are hideous worms within. Better to be a hideous worm on the outside like I am than a raging hypocrite. People who deny that old age is usually ugly do that because they are horrified of one day becoming ugly themselves, so they try to reassure themselves that its beautiful. Well guess what it's not, and one day you pretty people aren't going to be desirable anymore and no amount of lying to yourself will change anybody's opinion. |
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01-07-2014 Anon, thank you for you story.I am baffled how a disease can cause hatred. Repulsion, disgust can be an instinctive reaction: an instinct to stay away from the diseased could have an obvious evolutionary benefit. (Nature is cruel.) Ridicule, that's a sad possibility from children and fools. Pity can be viewed as a virtue by some and annoy others. But hatred?... Regarding acceptance and political correctness, it always looked strange to me that instead of saying "being X says nothing bad about you", people try to pretend that "nobody is X" and generally shun the "X word". As though they agree that X is, indeed, something bad! But we may be facing two somewhat different issues here. One is about such "almost universal" things as disease and deformity, the other has to do with more or less arbitrary aesthetic standards, in situations where the word "morbid" does not come to mind. Such as fat or thin (not to delilitating extremes), tall or short, muscular or weak, big-breasted or flat-chested. And the border between these categories may not always be obvious. Is baldness ugly? Is it immoral to see a bald man and think that it actually suits him? Yet it's a medical condition. Come to think of it, I don't think I should call myself a hypocrite if I imaging that even signs of old age don't have to be automatically ugly. They can be, more or less, "okay". Some old people look quite... normal? Especially if we don't conpare them to their young appearance. Maybe it's the health problems and disability, virtually inevitable with old age, that we see as unconditionally repulsive. Maybe if that "ugly" old person were 40 years younger but with the same medical record, they would look almost as disturbing?... |
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02-07-2014 I am baffled how a disease can cause hatred.you do not know how such a thing can occur. this is how https://frankfurt-s02-i01-traffic.cyberghostvpn.com/go/browse.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Furiupina.com%2Fcomments%2Fphilosophy-psychology%2Fequally-beautiful-denial%2F2&b=7 https://frankfurt-s02-i01-traffic.cyberghostvpn.com/go/browse.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Furiupina.com%2Fcomments%2Fphilosophy-psychology%2Fequally-beautiful-denial%2F2&b=7 |
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02-07-2014 may i ask you a question?so this statement will be accepted in to your blog i am forced to write more than what i want to write thus this writeing that is comeing forth is writing for the purpose of allowence. may you analyze these words for the understanding of the psyche. the psyche that this writeing comes from. waiting for your response before i ask. |
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02-07-2014 How can a disease cause hatred? Well, a disease can cause fear (AIDS, leprosy) and fear leads to hatred, usually, no? |
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02-07-2014 this is a quote you might want to assimilate into your listAdvice to the stupid produces anger. |
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04-07-2014
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Well, a disease can cause fear (AIDS, leprosy) and fear leads to hatred, usually, no? Hm. Rude avoidance, as in "stay away from me", perhaps. But aggressive hatred sounds like a desire to initiate (hostile) contact. In other words, why would someone want to assault -- touch -- a leper, if what drives them is fear of contagion? |
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