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05-09-2012 Adjustment,\r\n\r\nYou know, I see you write all of this nihilist related prose, and I give you credit, your arguments are not without merit, but if the miracle of life is bound to some terminal issues such as suffering, and it can be mitigated, when do you stop feeling unhappy, and begin to feel happy. I DO believe in God, I am obviously at odds with you basic paradigm, but lets throw my reasons out for a moment and consider yours. Are so fragile a creature of the mind that we cannot endure some suffering for the happiness that might become of it? Are we so useless that the mere thought of obstacles spell our absolute and complete failing and doom? Can we not salvagewhat IS GOOD around us and make something of it? For someone who has no faith in God, or other spiritual being, I would assume your faith lies in yourself and your fellow mankind. If you have the clarity of mind to so intelligently depict the obvious irony and paradox of existence, where a suffering pigeon juxtaposed against a 1000 smiling faces obvious rules our sentiments, then it should be clear to you that if you remove the pidgeon then the image changes, and I know you are aware of that from this writing, then you know that manipulation of your environs can cause a beneficial or detrimental outcome upon the world. Actions for good done in any name, God or man, can take us from there to another existence, so to speak, and make us better than we were before. Let\'s look and mankind\'s cruelty to man over the centuries, and lets face facts, we\'re alot better off than past generations, and they were better off than the one previous to them, etc. WE ARE getting better as a race, as sentient creatures, and there will ALWAYS be strife, but you cannot know good without bad, happiness without sadness, so as long as we mitigate that bad, search for less of it,but we still know it, then it stands to reason that good is all that is left. What is the point of doing away with our existence if we fail in stopping anything. Loins will continue to eat gazelle, dogs will it cats, big fish will eat little fish, and nothing will change as a result of mankind\'s disappearance. I know I speak from a non-egotistical point of view, and there is selflessness in it, but not as much as you might think. The notion that I will somehow, in some small way, perhaps make the world a better place is reason enough to try. Effort and will is what is required. We DO ADAPT, and we live on, and we suffer often, but it means nothing to have suffered so much and it be for naught. You should be taking those thoughts and not becoming an activist per say, but finding ways to make life better, us, for you, hell, for pigeons, and then when you do die, and you assume there is nothing after this, at least the last idea in your mind is that you did something that was greater than just yourself.\r\n\r\nSuffer everyday, reminded of all the things denied me, things I\'ll never have, and in my case, cannot, no matter what I do, and yet here I am, telling you it\'s better to tow the line than it is to give up. I\'m not asking you to not see what you see, not point out the truth that is obvious to you, just that instead of seeking the easy way out and saying there is nothing left but death in this world, try making a life, not a death, better for someone, even just yourself, and see how far you go. |
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05-09-2012
the miracle of life you say miracle I say a tragic accident is bound to some terminal issues such as suffering, and it can be mitigated, when do you stop feeling unhappy, and begin to feel happy is that another way of saying 'so what if your child died of cancer, when will you start singing and dancing again'? In this world, we're bound to be looking for ways to forget and distance ourselves from negative experiences, because we have to, suicide is too f-ing scary. But is this layout of things something to be applauded? I don't think so. I don't think I'd have created a world where people would be put in this position. Are so fragile a creature of the mind that we cannot endure some suffering for the happiness that might become of it? What's wrong with fragile? Fragile is precious. You wanna be a bulldozer that will run over anything on its way to happiness? And it's not just 'fragile', if someone is suffering in front of you and that doesn't affect your happiness that's not 'strong', that's insensitive and selfish. And what is a value of happiness? Does it posess such a great value that suffering is a fare price to pay for it? And what kind of happiness is supposed to outweigh and compensate for suffering? Is it just a regular enjoyment, or pleasure? Or some profound long-lasting bliss? How oeften does transcendent happiness happens and lasts? Or does any good time with friends or family counts as happiness? For someone who has no faith in God, or other spiritual being, I would assume your faith lies in yourself and your fellow mankind. I don't have much faith in anything. What do you mean faith in mankind? Or myself? To do what? To accomplish what? Maybe to fly another spaceship to the moon? That'd surely compensate for all the wars and genocides that took place. then it should be clear to you that if you remove the pidgeon then the image changes, and I know you are aware of that from this writing, then you know that manipulation of your environs can cause a beneficial or detrimental outcome upon the world. Didn't get that. WE ARE getting better as a race, as sentient creatures, and there will ALWAYS be strife, but you cannot know good without bad, happiness without sadness, so as long as we mitigate that bad, search for less of it,but we still know it, then it stands to reason that good is all that is left. Yes, we are. But who said I must be willing to know anything? Good or bad, sadness or happiness? I wasn't given a choice of not coming into this world where you can not know good without bad. I dare say that's bad. You can't stuff things down peoples throaths. This life, with its rules I find despicable wasn't offered to me as a gift, it was imposed on me. If you guys could manage to create only those who gladly embrace this world - there would have been no problem. Loins will continue to eat gazelle, dogs will it cats, big fish will eat little fish, and nothing will change as a result of mankind\'s disappearance. That's another question. At least people like me won't suffer having to whitness that. Less suffering is still better than more suffering, right? Although in theory, if humans could devise a painless sterelization aganet for the whole planet, I'd vote yes. Suffer everyday, reminded of all the things denied me, things I'll never have, and in my case, cannot, no matter what I do, and yet here I am, telling you it's better to tow the line than it is to give up. I have heard and seen a lot of people in conditions far worse than mine saying smth along these lines. I am glad they find ways to make life easier for themselves. But when they go as far as to try and deny others the right to assisted suicide 'because they manage, so should others' or decide its a good idea to pop a new human into this world - that's when I start having a problem with them. You have the right to decide what is acceptable and worthy for yourself, but telling other people what amount of suffering they should be able to endure is like counting somebody else's money. And then I heard people regretting their existence. People with permanent disabilities. They don't appreciate having to suffer because someobody else deems it appropriate. They want a choice they never had. What gives anyone the right to create such people? Their delusions of meaning and purpose? I don't think so. |
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06-09-2012 I'm very embarrassed at rereading my post and seeing so many grammar issues, you're from the Ukraine and you tend to write much better than myself, so my apologies if I seem less than thoughtful with my text, I'm sometimes more engrossed in the stream of thoughts coming from my head than the way it looks when typed.Frankly, I guess I have some homework to do, because you opened up your whole original post into details in response, and I have to say, I'm not at all unimpressed with the simple honesty of your opinions. I find it saddening that this world could inflict so much harm on a person’s psyche that they might feel as you do, and I won't insult you by telling you that you could do so much good in this world if you just refocused your efforts, in the end, what you do here is good enough to remind us that there are plenty of reasons to maybe DO something to prove you wrong, and not just so much rhetoric spewed by so many when people do have something to say about all this you state here. Without going too far into this, because I want to respond to all of your post, I will say now, with my frame of reference of God included in my opinion, that your experiences and your observation of so many with like experiences speaks to the real evil in the world, and that is of indifference. You are not indifferent tough, though your solution is not necessarily what I would agree with, and that says something. Too many faithful use their faith as a shield to create a sense of indifference in the world based upon some sort of rules/values based logic that says since xyz is this way, the result is and should be 123. Most people who deny the faith are usually better at quoting scripture than the faithful, so I'm sure you know that Jesus was clear that indifference was absolutely unacceptable, that it was not even a right per say, to a have hardened heart was to fail to grasp the meaning of the Lord. I think you, and many others have seen far too much indifference in life, and frankly I'm not telling you I haven't either, in the end, there is no where you can go where we don't seem to see it. We are all suspect of it too, but at least you have the nerve to remind folks and tell them the truth, and not put it under a rug. Hopefully someone, somewhere, will do something to impress you, and not just you, but something that impresses everyone like you, and maybe then I can argue my points far more easily and without too much worry of being shot down, but I digress, I have work to do now, I'll get back this soon. |
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06-09-2012
No problem about grammar, really, as long as we understand each other. I find it saddening that this world could inflict so much harm on a person’s psyche that they might feel as you do I find it saddening too.(( Thanks for your comments though, you seem to be a nice person, at least conceding the presence of suffering and its value. |
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06-09-2012 In this respect, I think there are two kinds of individuals:A: The ones who have suffered torture or, even if they haven't, do possess enough imagination and guts to grasp it. B: The ones who neither have suffered torture, nor have enough emagination and/or guts to grasp it. To me, it's just that simple. And there is no way in which an A will ever convince a B, or the other way round. The only exception to the above rule occurs when a B has to experience torture himself/herself... |
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06-09-2012
Zenner, I think you're onto something there. I was thinking something similar but not sure whether its imagination and guts... Psychological defense mechanisms work in mysterious ways )) Sometimes a person experiences torture and becomes a torturer, sometimes he becomes more empathetic... still pondering those thoughts... |
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06-09-2012 Ah, and a final comment:Individuals type B tend to think that they are immune to torture. But there are many kinds of it, and they can happen at any time, anywhere, to anybody. They are blissfully unaware of this... until it's their turn to discover the darkest truth about existence. |
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06-09-2012
Individuals type B tend to think that they are immune to torture. Yep, lots of people think horrid shit can never happen to them. Thus the wide-spread reaction 'I don't believe this is happening'. Why wouldn't you believe? You've seen it happen on TV, you heard reports and stories of it happening to others. I guess you somehow thought that you were special, you were protected. You're not. This is some kind of bias in our brain, It helps us function, be efficient. We go out and do stuff even though every step of the way theres danger. But how far would we go if we were constantly aware we're never safe? So evolutionarily this bias is explainable. Ugly though. Distorts reality. |
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06-09-2012 "not sure whether it's imagination and guts..."I'm pretty sure it has sth to do with the part of the brain that deals with the abstract and imaginative stuff (frontal lobes, you know...) Once you have the frontal lobes well developed and operative, you also need a great deal of guts to bear visualizing certain things... and I'm pretty sure about that too (personal experience, and observation of others...) "But how far would we go if we were constantly aware we're never safe? So evolutionarily this bias is explainable." We would go as far as to stop reproducing... and, as you Know, it's perfectly possible to move about and do stuff EVEN IF you are perfectly aware of all the potential dangers... (this is not true for everybody, of course). So, as far as I'm concerned, the explainable evolutionary bias can go to hell! I'm not all that interested in pleasing Nature... God... or Whatever! |
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06-09-2012
I'm pretty sure it has sth to do with the part of the brain that deals with the abstract and imaginative stuff Yeah, thats necessary, I guess, but the thing is, people with a perfect capacity to imagine the horror may choose to block that and not use their imagination for that purpose. Sort of like people don't imagine cows and pigs when eating stakes. and, as you Know, it's perfectly possible to move about and do stuff EVEN IF you are perfectly aware of all the potential dangers... (this is not true for everybody, of course). Yeah, I sure know it's possible. For what percentage of people - that's an interesting question.
Of course. Knowing our biases helps to overcome them. Doesn't mean we have to do what our biology is programmed for. |
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06-09-2012 "people with a perfect capacity to imagine the horror may choose to block that and not use their imagination for that purpose. Sort of like people don't imagine cows and pigs when eating stakes."Thank you for the insight! But, of course, that's it! It's just a question of LIFE EXPERIENCES. Even if your brain is well-equipped with a capacity for abstract thought and imagination, that is LATENT OR IN TWILIGHT STATE until certain life experiences repeatedly/recurrently STIMULATE it to start really working... and stop blocking the obvious. But even at this stage, GUTS (a different area of the brain, in all probability) are necessary to go all the way to the end of the line... Too many factors and happy coincidences... I doubt the statistics will be generous on the percentage of people who go that far... |
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07-09-2012
Thank you for the insight! I find your thoughts pretty insightful too) But even at this stage, GUTS (a different area of the brain, in all probability) are necessary to go all the way to the end of the line... Yeah, but I think GUTS need to be disected :) meaning what are those exactly. Is it just some kind of inborn or acquired bravery (in which case, how is that acquired), or is it that for some people the final step in acknowledging the tragedy and horror is easier than for others. Or even, for the same person in some particular time of their life under certain circumstances it is easier than in others. So I'm leaning towards it being the issue of being 'ready' to make such a step. But one does not exclude the other. It can be personality traits + circumstances. ehem.. + stars alignment kidding. |
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08-09-2012 "So I'm leaning towards it being the issue of being 'ready' to make such a step."Probably you have heard of that old proverb (Egyptian? Buddhist?) which says, "When the disciple is ready, the master will appear." We could alter it a bit and say indistinctly: - the master - the circumstances (life experiences) - the appropriate star alignment (most important))) - whatever... Yeah, ultimately it's a question of being ready... or not, I suppose. (and thanks for your kind words... most happy about my thoughts being of some use!) |
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08-09-2012 Hey Irina, good thoughts as always. I hope you are doing well despite the sadness felt!As I was reading, I felt for you, because I got a fresh take on your writing after not reading for awhile. It seems obvious how sensitive an individual you are.. and your rational mind is almost 'too good'. Most people don't have the intellectual capacity to think beyond instinct.. and we are a life-centric species programmed for domination and survival. The higher rational brain must be a new add on to our understanding. I'm sure we are entering a new age of reflection on ourselves, and in a way, you are on part of the forefront. I think this is a higher evolved way of thinking and realizing the implications of life and what will drive us to form a more just and humane society and existence on all of earth. I don't know if it is possible to change the underpinnings of nature though. I was thinking the other day on the truth of the world being the winners and the losers.. the haves and the have nots. The social impetus at picking yourself up at all costs to go be a winner again - stay ahead of the 'curve'. I remember feeling anxiety and frustration at an early age about this senseless get up and go.. this restless fear of competition that plagued everyone. I stopped, like Kurt Vonnegut, one day. But, the consequences were dire. It becomes a struggle for basic survival if you drop out of the game of life for too long. I felt like a wildebeast wounded and surrounded by hyenas (other humans who instinctively took advantage). It's ugly, the realities awaiting under the thin verneer of niceness our society manages to hold together. |
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08-09-2012 Yes, I also wanted to mention, happiness IS based on strength and the success of believing this bias - that the future will continue to improve and bad things will cease or happen less to 'me'.How successful you are at positive bias determines your level of success and happiness in life.. keep going through the positive and negative to hopefully bring forward a better world in your wake. Isn't that the little lesson taught at the end of every movie and storybook? Most people simply do not think beyond this! Period. That scares me quite frankly. So your pain, is that felt by the sensitive intellectual.. but the whole world should feel this pain! They don't. They are too busy surviving and 'not thinking too much'. Thinking more is actually the process of our higher evolution. It is uncomfortable and hard, which is why most people don't do it, and actually advise against it! My thoughts of the moment.. |
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08-09-2012
Hi John, good to see you back! Thanks for your thoughts, I can't find anything to disagree, and it feels nice knowing someone is seeing the situation in a very similar way. |
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08-09-2012 This is not a philosophical piece or even psychological, frankly I don't know what it is. Could you please explain what your intention was by posting this? Was there a reason behind it? Was it just out of habitual mechanics, or some other irrational impulse perhaps disguised by a reason.all basic organisms have wants, this is what stimulates action to occur. If action did not occur then no life could be maintained. life functions as a irrational organism for it wants self preservation but in the end self preservation can not be attained. so all this action as a means to try to achieve, this perhaps biological innate drive, something unachievable. to try to examine this threw irrationality threw logic is like trying to put a square peg threw a round hole. on the other hand can irrationality judge irrationality of existence? all logic originated from a logical fallacy. The same with science. we are a mechanical process with no free will. a utility for a utility for a utility and so forth. prt1 |
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08-09-2012
This is not a philosophical piece or even psychological, frankly I don't know what it is "That was a kind of a rant, I guess." (that was a bit of a pointer inside the entry). It goes under 'misc notes' category, nowhere does it say psychology or philosophy. This is my personal blog, you know. Was there a reason behind it? What's your reason for commenting here? all logic originated from a logical fallacy. Interesting statement. And you know this how? Through logic? You sound a bit confused. In the no free will part I might even agree (I don't have any other choice hehe) That was a kind of a rant, I guess. Copied from Irina Uriupina's blog Read more: http://uriupina.com/misc-mix/pigeon-of-peace-in-agony |
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08-09-2012 all things reside in a sphere of practical application, does this work if so it is useful if not then no. but this is not pragmatism because utility is not truth. life , suffering and enjoyment, are just conditions of this irrational force. irrational actually negates truth. prt2 |
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08-09-2012 I'm kinda apathetic on weather I get my point across or not. so I won't try as hard, but...I know lol. antagonism is good for the soul. absence of suffering through the destruction of ones enemies but often the self is the most frequent enemy. yes that was a '' begging the question'' logical fallacy my ''reason'', your attractive and smart. and my inquisitive nature beckoned my to see if you are actually attractive and actually smart. and just because it is know threw logic does not invalidate its truthfulness. that would be a fallicy. what time is it in ukraine? why do you agree? any critical thought behind that agreement. |
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08-09-2012
and just because it is know threw logic does not invalidate its truthfulness. that would be a fallicy. Which of the fallacies would it be? If you say 'logic originated from fallacy, and I'm sure of it because my logic tells me so' you might as well say the conclusion that 'logic is based on fallacy' could be itself fallacious because you're coming to that conclusion using your flawed, broken logic. If you're apathetic about whether you're getting your points or not, then don't ask me to clarify anything either, it's boring just being questioned. |
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