Amnesty International backs worldwide decriminalisation of prostitution

Finally, your invaluable witty comments will be indexable by Google  And the rest of them is on my hard-drive ready to be published again some day))

Did you look at the 25 paged PDF linked to the Independent's article? It consists of a 4 page letter from the naysayers, followed by 21 pages of signatures. 

I have now. And it's your fault I've spent like an hour investigating this subject further and google-translating some Dutch papers lol. You don't have to read below if you're really fed up with this topic 

Ok, so that naysayers letter reads:

"For instance, the 2002 German decriminalization law spawned countrywide brothel chains that offer “Friday-night specials” for men who have license to purchase women for sexual acts that include acts of torture."

Why not specify what that 'torture' amounted to? Instead, we get a link to the footnote which reads "For a list of ‘sexual services’ the German brothel chain Pascha offers in Cologne, Munich, Salzburg, Linz and Graz, go to httр://www.pascha....." Ok I did but I'm wary of spending more than 5 minutes on that site trying to find the alleged 'torture' service, wouldn't it be nice if you simply provided a full url to the page that proved your words? Otherwise, I'm inclined to think that it was BDSM that was meant by that strong and ugly word that some people evidently find arousing. And finally, if some kind of actual torture were to take place in a brothel, wouldn't we like for the woman to be able to call a police and report this case? Well, she only can do so if she's a legal sex worker.

Further they claim "reports indicate that the Netherlands has also seen an exponential increase in sex trafficking that is directly linked to that government’s decriminalization of the sex industry in 2000." linking this paper. Let's see what it actually reads:

"It is often very difficult for third parties to establish involuntary prostitution. For that reason, it is practically impossible to comment on any developments in the number of prostitutes who are in the sex business due to some degree of coercion. Indications of involuntary prostitution were found during the field work of the study into illegal prostitution, albeit to a minor degree. A number of the signs of exploitation that are identified by the Dutch National Rapporteur on Trafficking in Human Beings were observed by the researchers in the field, however to a limited extent. Of the prostitutes interviewed in the licensed sector, eight per cent stated that they began working in the sex business due to some form of coercion. Complicating factors in combating the commercial operation of involuntary prostitution is that policy, licensing and enforcement are mainly aimed at operators. Operators can use coercion, but coercion is chiefly exercised by pimps who operate more in the background and of whose existence operators are not necessarily aware. Pimps are still a very common phenomenon. Prostitutes with pimps mainly work behind windows, in the escort business and at home. These are the easiest sectors for the pimps to (charge others to) keep an eye on the prostitutes. The fact that the number of prostitutes with pimps has not decreased is cause for concern from the perspective of combating the commercial operation of involuntary prostitution. There does seem to be increased awareness among operators and prostitutes about preventing involuntary prostitution and exploitation. In view of the problematic nature of identifying and taking action against involuntary prostitution, there is a need for instruments that can assist in the aforementioned activities."

Then this article is cited, which I was only able to read the conclusion of through Google Translate and here's what it seems to boil down to:

"...the current policy is not sufficiently equipped to identify involuntary prostitution or human trafficking. The licensing is primarily focused on the operator. The fact that a company is permitted, does not guarantee that there is no exploitation taking place." - which basically echoes the previous source in saying that ". Complicating factors in combating the commercial operation of involuntary prostitution is that policy, licensing and enforcement are mainly aimed at operators." So the problem has been identified, hopefully it will be countered in the future.

Now, there are some other sources I wasn't able to access for free, but I've found one dedicated to the same issue and here's its conclusion:

"This paper has investigated the impact of legalized prostitution on inflows of human trafficking. According to economic theory, there are two effects of unknown magnitude. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution leads to an expansion of the prostitution market and thus an increase in human trafficking, while the substitution effect reduces demand for trafficked prostitutes by favoring prostitutes who have legal residence in a country.

Our quantitative empirical analysis for a crosssection of up to 150 countries shows that the scale effect dominates the substitution effect. On average, countries with legalized prostitution experience a larger degree of reported human trafficking inflows. We have corroborated this quantitative evidence with three brief case studies of Sweden, Denmark, and Germany. Consistent with the results from our quantitative analysis, the legalization of prostitution has led to substantial scale effects in these cases. Both the cross-country comparisons among Sweden, Denmark, and Germany, with their different prostitution regimes, as well as the temporal comparison within Germany before and after the further legalization of prostitution, suggest that any compositional changes in the share of trafficked individuals among all prostitutes have been small and the substitution effect has therefore been dominated by the scale effect.

Naturally, this qualitative evidence is also somewhat tentative as there is no “smoking gun” proving that the scale effect dominates the substitution effect and that the legalization of prostitution definitely increases inward trafficking flows. The problem here lies in the clandestine nature of both the prostitution and trafficking markets, making it difficult, perhaps impossible, to find hard evidence establishing this relationship. Our central finding, i.e., that countries with legalized prostitution experience a larger reported incidence of trafficking inflows, is therefore best regarded as being based on the most reliable existing data, but needs to be subjected to future scrutiny. More research in this area is definitely warranted, but it will require the collection of more reliable data to establish firmer conclusions.

The likely negative consequences of legalized prostitution on a country’s inflows of human trafficking might be seen to support those who argue in favor of banning prostitution, thereby reducing the flows of trafficking (e.g., Outshoorn, 2005).

However, such a line of argumentation overlooks potential benefits that the legalization of prostitution might have on those employed in the industry. Working conditions could be substantially improved for prostitutes—at least those legally employed—if prostitution is legalized.

Prohibiting prostitution also raises tricky “freedom of choice” issues concerning both the potential suppliers and clients of prostitution services."

So there we have it. Some percentage of women indeed gets coerced. But the majortity, from what I gather, is there out of their own 'free will' (those are philosophical quotes, hehe). Perhaps we have to concentrate better on how to stop that trafficking because sure as hell the oldest profession isn't going anywhere no matter how hard we try, and the freedom of choice remains a strong argument in favor of legalization.

Same kind of an argument is used against legalizing euthanasia: "because some people will get coerced into ending their lives" or because "some will feel they have to end their lives and not be a burden". So because, just like in every sphere of human existence, there are incidents of abuse, trickery and downright coercion, we should completely take away everybody's freedom to do what they please with their bodies or, as often the case with assisted suicide - to end their suffering.

Ok I guess I'll shut up in this comment ... for now 

Yep, it seems to be a great book judging by my Facebook friends' reviews.

Up late as usual. I was just going to bed. A sudden interest in this body trade topic kept me an hour too long, hehe.

Yeah, ruthless sytem, only the strongest will survive my fresh, beta commenting section 

I haven't yet read it but I will, I haz it))) We better discuss antinatalism topics in any other AN-related posts I think.

ask them after they say that they love their job or work isn't so bad or humiliating "If you could continue to draw your paycheck without having to go to work, would you keep working?" Usually they hem and haw and then admit that they wouldn't.

Right, that's a very good test, and it's the reality of our lives that we spend a 3rd of it asleep and the majority of our waking moments - working, doing stuff we'd rather not if we had the choice.

But prostitutes were always unfairly singled out and scorned for their work, and I think, this fact is partly responsible for their mental problems. If society didn't look down on women who provide sexual services they might just feel a little better about themselves. That's not to say that their job doesn't suck - that we know for sure it does  - but then so does every job in the service industry. Being a waiter, or being in customer support - try taking that shit 8 hours a day and see how your mental health changes! But then, if we would naturally sympathize with a girl or a guy who got yelled at and called names by an angry customer, we do not feel the same for the prostitute, we kind of think she should expect being treated badly because she deserves it, she is like the lowest caste, people use her job position to curse. So... yeah, I imagine prostitution having negative effects on women involved in it, but not only due to the nature of the profession itself.

This is a horrendous business and makes me once again ashamed to belong to the same species as the evil scum-fucks who perpetrate such horror. Every problem I see always leads me back to antinatalism. When you consider the magnitude of suffering that goes on in this world, how anyone in their right mind can possibly justify, let alone advocate the continued creation of life is beyond me.

I feel the same way, of course. But obviously, most people don't.

Those girls (and guys) who are willing to work in the sex industry should not be prevented from doing so because there also exist unscrupulous exploiters out there. It's not their fault and they should not be punished as a consequence. To me this is a transfer of the burden of responsibility and it means that better policing methods need to be implemented. It's like an anti-slavery abolitionist saying that without the additional workforce it's impossible to keep his fields tilled. Tough shit, find another way!

Right, it is shifting of the responsibility. Like when they force people suffering from cancer to call a registered nurse each time they need a morphine injection (which often is up to 4 times a day) in order to prevent drug addicts from getting this substance. That's what they did in Ukraine, where it is often not easy for that tired underpaid nurse to get to that far away village where the roads are horrible and buses go once a day. 

Similarly, they've banned the use of the effective painkillers by private clinics ambulances, so aparently if you call them instead of the governmental one (which is slow and destitute) you'll not have the ptoper anesthesia. Again, because druggies. How is that more important to prevent an addict from having his fix than allowing all the rest of us to have the best possible medical care, comfort and pain relief? 

It would seem to me that if prostitution were legalised and they were given the same rights and protection as people in other lines of work then it would be much more difficult for the traffickers to operate freely.

We know this problem existed before legalisation. Since we've been there, done that it makes sense to try and legalize it, and then give it some time and improve the legislations and monitoring of this area.

Evidently, it takes people with different expertiese to come up with the best strategy of combating forced prostitution. There need to be economists, criminologists, sociologists etc involved in this.

I can see how girls from poor countries keep getting llured into trying their luck overseas. It's tragic. Ukraine was always high on that list, I've seen documentaries about that. To combat this, we even had the campaigns on TV raising awareness of sex trafficking. But a lot of people are profiting from this so it goes on. From Ukraine people get trafficked to Dubai and Turkey, where prostitution is illegal. When I was a 20-year-old model with this model agency, I've been offered to go to Dubai where my assignment would supposedly have been 'to just walk around and relax, sunbathe and party because those Arabs just really like to see beautiful girs around. No sex, they won't even touch you unless you explicitly consent, they're very shy'. Can you imagine this bullshit? But I understand the young naive girls who fall for that. And the more dire her situation at home, like, poverty, alcoholic parents and abuse - the more she will be tempted to buy that bull. God knows I almost did.

The problem of exploitation, either prostitution or slavery is one of the contrast between poverty in one country and wealth in the other. The side of Dubai that they DON'T want tourists to see

But then again, I've seen a documentary that tells a story of a girl who was first coerced into prostitution abroad, but then decided to come back there because it was the only way she could earn money for her little sick brother. There is no work in the destitute villages of Ukraine. There's no McDonalds to go and flip burgers in. What do they do? I've known a few girls personally who started doing porn in order to be able to live in Kyiv. They weren't starving, they were just young and wanted to live in the capital and that was the way they saw as acceptable for them. Then, my friend used prostitutes a couple of times and he told me one of them was a student and this helped her pay her rent in the city. She'd told her parents she was working elsewhere but she found an opportunity to earn her rent money in 4 hours to be much more interesting than having to work 30 hours a week, every week. That's her choice.

I know anecdotes are not data but a more objective data seems to also show that the majority is in this business by choice.

how the stigma associated with prostitution has come about and why as a society it's still considered taboo. 

why, religion probably, what else? Could be a lot of things, actually, but it calls for another research. Maybe if I'm motivated sometime in the future...

The most attractive element in any person to me, including a woman, is their intelligence

You're a sapiophile then maybe?

What about sapiosexual?

Regarding my question about why prostitution has always been reviled by the masses, I was trying to dig deeper than to settle with religion as an answer. I've no doubt it is the main reason, but it still isn't satisfactory for me - it's too neat. We're atheists and attest that religion is man made, therefore there must be an underlying psychological component to the whole affair.

True, but what was the psychological component of endorsing slavery in the Bible? Our selfish, exploitative nature minus the realization that it's gonna backfire. Why did men subjugate women in the first place? Maybe because they could. They're physically stronger sex and that was all that mattered when we were all dumb. P So once subjugated, why not write it in the book that women are the addendums of men: their property, the baby-ovens who first belong to their fathers and then - their husbands. 

Though Sex At Dawn argues that we were all fucking around with no problemo when we were living as communes owning no property. It's only when the land ownership appeared did the need for figuring out who is whose child popped up (inheritence), thus the need for controlling female sexuality.

I would also speculate that promiscuity - either paid or unpaid - may not be attractive in either sex today because of the underlying risk of disease transmission. You know they say the feeling of disgust at the sight of certain things or from certain smells got formed evolutionarily because those things were harmful to us. So we developed that revoltion as a safety mechanism. Maybe something like this is connected with promiscuity?..