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15-07-2016 I'm around people 80 years old and up every day. Trust me, we don't want to get old |
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17-07-2016
I see, thanks for confirming my suspicion. So, since we're in a close age group, we should get together for a suicide get-togethe one day before we're way too old :D if we're still alive |
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15-07-2016 By the way, I've been using all the terrorist attacks and problems to promote antinatalism. I find about 10% of people agree with me Do you ever promote it? |
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17-07-2016
And the 90 percent think you're a weirdo, right? I've tried in real life, it is a waste of time and a good alienation strategy. At best, people will disagree and still think you're a good erson even though you have strange views, at worst they'll think there's gotta be something wrong with you. |
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17-07-2016 Irina,America is a mess. Ukraine is a mess. How can one stay positive? Just become selfish? It's tough for me. |
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17-07-2016
But yeah, you have to find what makes you happy, or just what is fun and try to pursue it. I find that living alone, cutting off people who make me miserable or try to use me is a huge step in that direction. But of course, if shit hits the fan in Ukraine tomorrow it won't be so fun no more. But what can I do about it? Nothing. Sp today I watch a good movie, chat with friends, have a glass of wine, read a book and fuck tomorrow's mayhem if it comes. |
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17-07-2016 Great points all around, Irina. This is why you're the master |
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19-07-2016
Haha thanks, here's the longer version http://uriupina.com/philosophy-psychology/pessimism-depression-meaning |
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24-07-2016 Well, when you're old all of sudden a lot of things stop making sense. Why have goals? Why make long-term plans?That carrot that we're all chasing starts to disappear after a certain age. It's easy to delude ourselves with promises of a better life, a better job, better experiences and so forth when we are younger... |
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24-07-2016
Right, and then we're often seeing an increase in religiosity (or para-religiosity, all those life after death 'spiritual' beliefs), at least that's what I seem to observe, not gonna claim there's a study that confirmes this. But it's clear at that point that our earthly lives are final, and our pleasures are limited and body can be such a source of pain as well... so... hope for a sky daddy? a renewed incarnation somewhere else after this old painful sack disintegrates? this is scary, i don't blame old people for trying to delude themselves even harder, we're just scared animals after all. A bit more annoying and duplicitous and a lot less cute then some other animals I might add. |
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25-07-2016 Have you notice an increase in religiosity in people as they get older? That's interesting.Can't say I have seen that. I think people who turn to god or to the possibility of an after-life when they're old or in suffering tend to be people who have always been either agnostic, religious or extremely suggestible. Even if I was in excruciating pain I don't see how that could ever override a life of skepticism and scientific naturalism. In fact to be honest, I don't even think god existing would be as good as most people think. That's the thing, life without god is terrible and life with god would also be terrible. I find this duality to be true in regard to most things. Life without meaning is terrible but life with an objective meaning would also be pretty bad since like you said, we would be slaves to it. Life without the notion of free will is very disheartening and yet life with true free will would be impossible. For some reason this reminds me of a quote by Pessoa: "Rather than the cessation of my existence, which may or may not be possible, this weariness makes me long for something far more horrifying and profound: never to have existed at all, which is definitely impossible. " Anyway, I'm rambling. |
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25-07-2016
Yeah, no, most of them I think were not atheists all their lives, but not church-going or regularly praying either, they were just 'there's probably some higher power out there, but why should I care, I got interesting shit to do while I'm young', and then growing old and moving closer to greave they start going to church or reading/talking a lot about the other world and how what they do here will count in there. I've even been told by someone I knew that hs father, though he was a true atheist all his life, asked for a priest on his death bed. And then, just look at what Tolstoy wrote in his 'Confession', even after he'd seen all the absurdity and suffering of this world, he still turned to religon in the end. Ah! Another exampe is that movie 'God on Trial' and what they do in the end, in that gas chamber after they've sentenced their God. It depicts human irrationality and the horror that our mortality raises in us. Even if I was in excruciating pain I don't see how that could ever override a life of skepticism and scientific naturalism. That's how I feel as well, in my worst moments I still can't make myself believe in God and pray. And just the same I start thinking, what good would it do to pray to a God who would create/allow such a world to exist/continue, if he/she/it had the values we humans have he/she/it would've already done something to mitigate the suffering on this planet without our tips and pleads. As Sophocle wrote, never to have come into existence is by far the best thing. Well, tough for us))) |
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24-08-2016 There are no non-believers on a crashing plane? Isn't this just a case of people hedging their bets? "OK, there's PROBABLY no god, but just to be on the safe a last minute conversion is in order!" The idea that there must be some intrinsic meaning to life is bound up with the notion that our actions, "achievements" and lives themselves will somehow "live on" after our bodies have been returned to a pile of atoms and that we will be remember by those in the future. We must "make our marks", "leave a legacy" and so on. How many motivational books and so-called gurus urge us to ask ourselves "what will your legacy be?” Of course, the Stoics would scoff at this, preferring to ask “Who will even know your name?”; it seems that this is a depressing idea for some. It’s this idea, that nothing has any real meaning, that can lead someone to question the validity of doing anything, of pursuing any hobby so that end like the main character in Philip Roth’s book, “Everyman”, when he looks at his accumulated books and hobby-related materials and realises with horror that the very things he sought to have at the end of his life are in fact futile and, in a cruel twist of fate, unwanted by him. He’s been fooling himself all along. In my own life I’ve lost all interest in reading novels after asking myself why the hell I was willing to spend all that time wading through yet another fat tome: really, what is the point? What was I trying to prove? And to whom?Perhaps it enough to enjoy something, to know that you enjoy it and not kill it to death by asking it to give us or our little lives meaning. |
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02-10-2016 Your comment about getting together for suicide reminded me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXxzEZJDXSM, and the scene at 24:10, if you did that i would probably die from heart attack ..but in all seriousness i feel so calm just thinking about suicide with someone who shares my world view, not that i would not do it ''alone'' but just the thought of group of people with similar world view getting together and ''showing middle finger'' to life makes me happy. |
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02-10-2016
Hey good short film. H eart attack isn't the worst thing to die of ))) Well, sure, 'group of people with similar world view' is nice, but there's sometimes that dynamics that's unseen over the internet, so when you actually do meet someone you had great contact with on the net you might actually dislike them, or something about them, almost on a vicveral level. How awkward would that be: "hey wait I've changed my mind, I don't want to die with you"))) Or put it more rudely and you have a chance of getting killed)) Was there once a website at suicideholiday? It's in the name of the film and of course there's nothing by that url. Such unquestionable prohibition against suicide. As if people get 'seduced' into offing themselves easily. |
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03-10-2016 Yes i understand the possibility of that happening, but i personally wouldn't worry about it, what are the odds of someone getting that mad? but yea it would be weird and in my opinion hilarious if after already arranged get together suicide, on the same exact day i told someone in person or i was told ''I don't want to die with you'' LOL If it happens that we meet and i find you weird i would just send you an email later that day saying: Irina, i've changed my mind, i don't want to die About the website, i found an archive few years ago, and the website itself lasted from 1993 to 2002, there was some ridiculous media backlash against it in the past. Visitng that website few years ago was fascinating, emotional, and at times felth like staring at the void. The whole idea of a website and people giving you tips on how to commit suicide, people getting together for a suicide, was for sure a unique thing in the 90's. I like that people got opportunity to express themselves, and i am sure that many did not commit suicide, ironically because they found the website, and people they could relate to. It was truly a rebellious part of the internet, just like your website is today, in it's own way. btw something random, i recently found this song on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIFlhzdILMc the video/song blew me away, so many emotions.. |
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05-10-2016
i would just send you an email later that day saying: Irina, i've changed my mind, i don't want to die ;) Liar, even on his 'death bed'! lol Kidding, it's always good to try and avoid hurting anybody's feelings. i am sure that many did not commit suicide, ironically because they found the website, and people they could relate to. I'd also think that. just like your website is today, in it's own way. aww, thanks! :) i recently found this song on youtube it's very hypnotic, the vid+melody just match perfectly. Were you searching for suicide music, as in 'music to die to'? hehehe because this one would fit))) |
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04-10-2016 In reference to liking someone just from communicating with them over the internet, I've never been exposed to that, too old I guess. But when meeting people over the years, I've found the three Fs (Finances, Family, Filosophy) to be the most important things to me. That is, if we can't come to terms on how money is handled, on children, and on things like religion then odds are we can only have an activity-based friendship, like off-hand masturbation, or something like that.So for me, for instance, top requirements would be high levels of intelligence and compassion, an atheist through study, and an anti-natalist by educated choice (not just happen to not have children). After that, the differences could vary, and some would make the friendship more interesting. There have been cult suicides in the past, many borne of a charismatic leader and many times all looking to go somewhere better when they die. I can't see this would be proper motivation for ANers, but rather an individual choice due to fatigue, injury, depression, poverty, etc. which is much more a personal decision based on unique conditions of a person's current situation. I think it would be interesting to meet a large group of ANers, just to see how this single understanding is held by possibly many different types of people. Would we get along, Irina? We might be great neighbors, we might find each other annoying. Who is to say? --- > Edited 04-10-2016 04:13:24 |
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05-10-2016
In reference to liking someone just from communicating with them over the internet, I've never been exposed to that, too old I guess. Neh, lotsa really old people are doing it today, it's just a matter of taste. I don't know, I used to like skyping and all that, but then i suddenly got tired i stopped having chats or calls with anybody long-distance. Some fatigue. I like to get together in real life, but of course, there's another problem, not too many people in real life are ineteresting enough to get together with so... sad, very sad. I think it would be interesting to meet a large group of ANers, just to see how this single understanding is held by possibly many different types of people. Would we get along, Irina? We might be great neighbors, we might find each other annoying. Who is to say? I'm not sure, good question. Probably a little better than usual but not like some universal harmony would shine upon us, we all still remain people, with our childhood traumas, our jerk-ishness, weirdness and bad habits... Hopefully, we'd at least all have good breathe though, that'd be a great start already :) |
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06-10-2016 I wanted to find similar genre (or atleast a song) to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QQS8fJqXoI.. but years back when i was actually checking videos about suicide on youtube i found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deAmbp1WdNA Not cheerful obviously but it's art in my opinion. |
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19-10-2016
Yeah, good song. Sad but I think what's sad for me about suicide is the thought of how bad people can suffer that they even overcome the fear of death to put an end to it. Sad they even had to go through this, yanked out of non-existence just to fight their way into it again. |
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06-10-2016 quote: lotsa really old people are doing it today Thanks, Irina! Really old, indeed… My best experience, besides my exceptionally normal dysfunctional family, was my university experience living in an early 1900s beautiful (worth many millions of dollars today) 3-story house without A/C (and in Texas that is something these days) with 17 other men and 18 women, common bath areas, common living areas downstairs, and a common daily dinner. All organization, housework, bill paying, and repairs was owned and run by the occupants in a co-operative fashion, owning the house without a landlord in a rotating fashion as students came and went. We had people from various parts of the states, Europe, Asia, etc. with, at one time, I counted 5 different languages being spoken at one time in the living room one evening. It was fascinating how a system was devised to keep the house clean and functioning, food in the kitchen, etc. over the past 60 plus years. I learned so much about other people, and especially women, since I had no sisters. It was the best and worst time in my life, but I learned how to compromise and live with all types of people, and I never regret the lesson I learned and friends I made living there. I have so many stories I still think to write a book about it, because it wasn't a sorority nor fraternity, but just people. It was a great social experiment full of pairing off, drug overdoses, academic successes, group support, life-long friendships, even a baby was born in the room next to me to a couple that lived in the house (not fond of that, but whatever). We had all types of students and professionals, and if you have ever cooked or cleaned for or lived with 36 people, you can just imagine the things that can go right and wrong! --- > Edited 06-10-2016 05:35:26 |
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19-10-2016
Kirk, remember who called me 'middle-aged'? ))))) hehe But really I meant it as in even really old people do this today so you're def not too old for it. 17 other men and 18 women, common bath areas, common living areas This is like Soviet 'kommunalka' - communal living, every person/family having only own room, rest of the areas shared. Must have been a mad house, even though of course you get used to it a little bit I guess in a while. Though never stop wanting to escape it, right? I have so many stories I still think to write a book about it You should, even just imagining this house is fun, sort of, it's ineteresting. And with self-publishing made easy ... only have to find time and inspiration. |
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